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Post by ladyvaltaya on Oct 25, 2007 5:58:44 GMT
I figure most of us will probably be voting for the two most notable deaths on the poll... but I thought that since a discussion about FFVII's biggest tragedy was posted on ACF, that it might go over well here too.
I didn't want to limit anyone here to just one or two options so I went through the whole compilation and I tried to pick out the bad stuff with the highest death tolls and the ones that simply mark a big turning point in the characters' lives as the stories progress.
I didn't like the idea that the question should compare Zack and Aerith's deaths alone because that isn't what they were about. That isn't what they lived for and they would not want to be remembered that way.
I will come right out and say though, that of all the things on this poll, the one that has always affected me the most has been Zack's death. He was so close and he fought so hard to get back to Aerith and he could have escaped but he didn't even try because he really wanted to save Cloud... The whole thing was a giant set up by Shinra anyway and it just makes me sick that they pretty much got away with it...
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Dee
Materia Dealer
Go for it.
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Post by Dee on Oct 25, 2007 6:29:46 GMT
Zack's death. Hands down.
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Post by Captain Wee on Oct 25, 2007 7:36:51 GMT
It was a toss up between Aerith's death and the plate dropping on Sector Seven. I would say Aerith's death since her life was so painful for so long and when it seems that she had finally found people that she loved and loved her back, when she finally had a future to look forward to, her life was cut down.
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Post by leafonthebreeze on Oct 25, 2007 8:22:08 GMT
Aerith's death has been forever ruined by my occasioanal hating sessions on youtube, where I watch people massacre her death scene (usually brought on by idiots on youtube posing horrible comments on cloti vids) By far the best one simply played the batle victory music as she fell... Heh I'm an evil cow.
Zack's death is the point which made me nearly cry, although some of the tragic Vincent/Lucretia scenes came near it too.
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Post by fearandloathing on Oct 25, 2007 8:56:43 GMT
Zack's death because not only will I cry like a b'itch when I play it in full, but he was FREE and they were going to GO and be HAPPY. When Aeris died, at least she had the lifestream to do awesome with and Zack to go hang out with and play squash (because that is sooo what they do) when Zack goes it's like 'NO! You have so much to live foorrrr!' * *
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Post by piedflycatcher on Oct 25, 2007 9:47:18 GMT
Zack's death in FFVII is an optional scene. I missed it the first couple of times I played, so I wasn't even aware of the tragedy to begin with.
I think the Nibelheim disaster was very sad. So many terrible things happened there. If it weren't for Nibelheim, Sephiroth wouldn't have gone mad, Cloud and Zack wouldn't have been experimented on, Tifa wouldn't have lost her father... It really is a pivotal scene.
For sheer emotion, however, I voted for Aerith's death. It was such a shock, and yes, I cried. No other scene in FFVII had such an impact on me.
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Dahhak
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Post by Dahhak on Oct 25, 2007 11:50:06 GMT
I voted for Deepground’s mass kidnappings and murder (well everyone they abducted were executed weren't they?) and that numbered into the thousands - men women and children. They were all killed by a lunatic that wanted to wipe out all life on the planet.
I might have gone for the plate fall as well, but I'm not sure how high the death toll was in that one, so I voted the above instead.
I am honestly puzzled why people voted for Zack and Aeris' death. I mean they're not all that tragic in my eyes because both characters pulled an Obi-Wan and cheated death. Both had their spirits survive intact allowing them to physically manifest and interact with people in the living world (end of AC at the church for one). Neither characters seem overly bothered by their current status, and in Aeris' case if she hadn't died the planet would probably be done for, because it was her death and return to the planet as a spirit that really gave her the knowledge and power to summon Holy and the lifestream to stop Meteor, as well as cure Geostigma and give Cloud the strength to defeat Sephiroth, none of which would be possible I don’t think if she hadn't died.
Really, I think it is more tragic that thousands of people were murdered for an evil cause, and their souls are pretty much gone - shoved in a giant green swirling blender and losing all sense of individuality and self. Sure their experiences are now part of the planet, but as people they are all gone forever. They weren't as lucky as Aeris and Zack were, they don’t get to stick around and watch over and protect their loved ones the way those two can.
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Post by Sylla on Oct 25, 2007 15:12:12 GMT
I see where you're coming from, Dahhak, but those events didn't really affect me that much. I mean, lots of peolpe died, and that was pretty horrible, but they'll all be reborn eventually- it's not like their souls are gone forever. And anyway, that circulation of souls could be said to be what keeps the Planet alive- so in a sense, their deaths actually helped the Planet out. Plus, that kind of abstract death has never affected me that much- I don't know why.
I found Aeris' death to be much more personal, and it affected me much more. Even though I knew it was coming, it was so tragic it almost made me cry- it got me closer, anyway, than any other game ever has, or ever will, probably. I mean, think about it- Aeris is the one who talks most of the future- what they'll all do once it's over, et. She holds a strong belief that they'll see this through, and she even says "I'll come back once this is all over." Except she doesn't- and I think that's the most tragic thing of all.
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Post by piedflycatcher on Oct 25, 2007 15:23:27 GMT
Plus, that kind of abstract death has never affected me that much- I don't know why. I think it's because of our connection or lack of connection to the characters. I mean, judging simply in terms of body count, the plate being dropped on Sector Seven or Geostigma killing hundreds of people ought to be more tragic than a single person's death. But all the people that died in Sector Seven are faceless. We don't know them; we hardly saw them. The main reason we care about the tragedy is because the characters we do know care about it. Aerith (or Zack, but I'm using Aerith as an example because we got to know her more in the game) is only one person, but I think her death affects us more because we have a personal connection to her. She's a playable character, we learn about her hopes and dreams, we root for her - and then suddenly she dies. Moreover, she is murdered by the villain. And that's why for me, the death of that single character had more impact than any other. It's a more personal tragedy.
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Post by Sylla on Oct 25, 2007 15:50:18 GMT
What Pied said right there- I agree 100%.
Way to go Pied. =D
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Ink
SOLDIER First Class
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Posts: 1,681
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Post by Ink on Oct 25, 2007 16:53:16 GMT
I have to agree with Dahhak here. Zack and Aerith died, and yes it was sad, but they were just two people, they died for something they believed in and they were able to watch over their beloved ones like angels. But slaughtering thousands of people, in both in DoC and with the plate, that's just horrible.
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Post by Kysic on Oct 25, 2007 17:35:24 GMT
I can't really vote because everything seems nearly equally horrible in my opinion. I don't understand how people can cry for something that happened in a video game, but that's just me. Don't get me wrong. I can get pretty sad if it's bad enough, but I never really cried over something that happened in a video game, or at least I don't remember a time.
I was awfully sad during the Deepground killing thing mostly because some children actually died. It was kind of sad to watch a little girl being forced into a container that DG later uses to carry them to their base. It's just if you see a child leaving like that, there's not denying a child died.
Either way, I don't think I can vote, at least not yet.
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Post by fearandloathing on Oct 25, 2007 17:43:51 GMT
Can't cry over a video game, wow, you are like my total opposite Video games are one of the few things that can regularly reduce me to tears (I can still barely make it though the ending of X without sobbling like a b'tch ) DoC had me all weepy and one part of VIII just made me suddenly go 'oh GOD' *bursts into floods of tears*
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Post by T. Costa on Oct 25, 2007 19:50:51 GMT
I voted for Geostigma. After reading the novellas that Square put out and watching AC, it struck me a lot more than individual deaths (although do not get me wrong, I bawled when Zack died - I adore Zack...Then again, I also bawled when I thought Rufus had died). I think I would have chosen Nero's kidnapping spree, except that the Geostigma seemed to affect predominently (although not entirely) children, who had no choice in the matter and were simply at the wrong place at the wrong time - and who had no means of defending themselves. Sick kids = sad Tasha. I know this is going to p**s a lot of people off, but I really did not like Aeris, so her death didn't affect me much except that I was glad I didn't have to have her in my party for plot forwarding (as in the Temple of the Ancients) anymore. The moment I first got Aeris (and she's always going to wind up being Aeris for me, no matter what I try to do to correct that - Aerith just sounds weird) she annoyed me. I just can't help it, I don't like goodie-two shoes and helpless females. Maybe that's why I like Yuffie so much. The plate dropping on sector seven didn't serve as a tragedy to me, it served to highlight how ruthless and emotionally detached Shinra was - as the plate falls, President Shinra is sitting there from the tower watching, listening to opera (and possibly sipping wine and smoking a cigar, because that's what rich fat-cats do). It was probably a tragedy in that a lot of people lost their lives, but they're faceless individuals, and that scene serves to highlight how little Shinra cares about the people under them. And as for human experimentation, well, it's sad, of course, but worse things happen in the real world - and, we wouldn't have FF7 at all if it weren't for human experimentation. ~Tasha
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Post by ladyvaltaya on Oct 26, 2007 8:08:42 GMT
If it wasn't for human experimentation we wouldn't have FF7 at all if it weren't for human experimentation. ~Tasha That is precisecly why I included it on the poll. As much as I love this game, all of the other tragedies stem from the central evil that Hojo and the rest of Shinra's science department were committing when they were messing around with Jenova, Stagnant Mako and whatever combination of the two that gave Vincent, and most likely Azul the Cerulean, their transformations and ability to revert back to human form again.
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