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Post by fearandloathing on Apr 25, 2008 23:17:48 GMT
*Hi-fives you and peforms 'tackle of the century'* That is some wicked information, Kysic, I think that basically cracks Vincent's character for me It's just him XD
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Post by T. Costa on Apr 26, 2008 0:17:07 GMT
Agreed. Vincent is not really guilty of anything except assigning blame where none should have been.
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Post by Kysic on Apr 26, 2008 0:38:18 GMT
I also need to add one more thing. The difference between Lucrecia and the crystal and Vincent and the coffin was their motives. Lucrecia went in the crystal because she couldn't handle anymore pain. She even says in DOC, "I can't take it anymore. My body, my mind..." I don't know if that's exactly what she said, but it should at least be pretty close. Vincent, on the other hand, went in the coffin to atone, not hide away from the pain. I'm not exactly saying that Lucrecia was a wimp. I'm just saying that Vincent and Lucrecia's motives were different. Whether Vincent or Lucrecia's motive was cowardly might be a matter of opinion.
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Renolvr
SOLDIER First Class
I've decided that some things are worth the pain.
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Post by Renolvr on Apr 26, 2008 14:37:37 GMT
I agree with what you're saying Kysic - their motives were different.
Lucrecia sealed herself away because she had realised the mistake she had made and what her decisions had led to...she couldn't handle having to deal with anymore pain, be it physically or mentally - the woman had hid away from it all. Whereas; Vincent locked himself in the coffin in the belief that he was helping the planet. He had already failed to stop the Jenova project, so by locking himself away; he was halting the possibilities of himself failing further. That, and, he felt himself a failure for not stopping Lucrecia, and locked himself away in order to, as has been pointed out already; atone for his failures/sins.
Long story short - Lucrecia ran away from her mistakes, Vincent tried to make up for his.
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kushi
New Member
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Post by kushi on May 2, 2008 15:53:13 GMT
Blah I don't really hate this Lucrecia character in general, but I indirectly hated her for ruining Vincent. I used to think Vincent was the most awesome character ever till I read up on his story. It just doesn't make any sort of sense. I can't understand why he would still love her even though she's done all the things she's done, it's too unrealistic for my tastes.
Honestly though, I have to say DoC REALLY ruined the whole ff7 series for me, we could have just concluded that Lucrecia didn't actually love Vincent all that much and preferred Hojo or something. However with the "I loved Vincent with all my heart" crap their whole relationship suddenly didn't make any sense at all... if she loved him with all her heart, why would she do things that'll hurt him much more than anyone else could have? - Make out with Hojo infront of his face, have Hojo's child, then worse of all... go against ALL of Vincent's morals and let Hojo experiment with the baby when Vincent's trying to let her go.
And yet Vincent still loves her, how is that possible? Is my view insanely biased? is there something I'm forgetting? Does the whole Vincent still loves Lucrecia even though all she's done, even make any sense?
A lot of my friends told me I'm just totally over analysising this game and it's a very minor part, but the only reason I played ff7 + the sequels was all for Vincent. I hope someone proves me wrong or at least twists my views some how, I'm totally hating ff7 right now because of Lucrecia....
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Post by Kysic on May 2, 2008 20:19:32 GMT
I wish I could answer your questions right here, but I don't have the time right now. Instead, I'll suggest something better. I offered a link to an awesome debate that views Vincent's morals pretty well. Just go back to page 5 and follow the link I offered. Some of the posts in the forum are kind of long, but they do analyze facts thoroughly. Maybe the topic in the link will answer your questions.
For now, all I can say is that Vincent cared a lot about Lucrecia. He even cared enough to let Lucrecia be with someone else. He even says, "If she is happy, then I don't mind." However, I think it was mostly Vincent's guilt that made him think a lot about Lucrecia for a while, not the love itself. I have bad memory, so I may need to recheck my view.
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Post by T. Costa on May 2, 2008 23:58:45 GMT
Vincent and Lucrecia had a very unhealthy relationship, IMO. But yeah, you are overanalyzing it a little bit - love and obsession are rarely things that make sense. That's just my humble experience talking, but matters of the heart are rarely reasonable and easily explained away.
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Renolvr
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I've decided that some things are worth the pain.
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Post by Renolvr on May 4, 2008 0:37:01 GMT
I reckon that Vincent still broods over what could have been with him and Lucrecia due, not to love, but to guilt. He coudn't stop all that transpired from happening, and he feels guilt over the fact that harm befell her despite the best of his atttempts.
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Kisara Strife
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Post by Kisara Strife on May 4, 2008 13:45:16 GMT
Question; at the end of DoC we see Vincent smile a truly happy smile- for thast reason I don't think he's gonna brood over Lucrecia all that more these days- but what's gonna happen to Shelke?
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Post by Kysic on May 4, 2008 14:19:42 GMT
Question; at the end of DoC we see Vincent smile a truly happy smile- for thast reason I don't think he's gonna brood over Lucrecia all that more these days- but what's gonna happen to Shelke? Well, it's kind of hard to tell for sure because some details seem to be left out. In my opinion, I think it's a matter of opinion. To some people, that smirk would mean: A:) He's finally gotten over his past. B:) He's ready to start moving on. C:) He's satisfied that he finally got to know Lucrecia really did love him. That smirk can mean other things, too, but I don't want to list them all. Either way, we can't exactly say for sure what it meant. Speaking of Shelke, she okay, but I don't like how she has Lucrecia's memories. I find it annoying for some reason. I think it may be because I don't think it's any of Shelke's business to keep them after helping Vincent with Omega. I just don't see why she needs them anymore, and Vincent needs to learn to be more open to people on his own. That's only a guess of why it annoys me. I still can't figure out why for sure because this feeling only developed recently. Wait, does she still have Lucrecia's memories at the end of the game?
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Renolvr
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I've decided that some things are worth the pain.
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Post by Renolvr on May 4, 2008 14:45:36 GMT
I'm not sure whether she does or doesn't still have Lucrecia's memories at the end of the game Kysic, but I can understand why if might annoy you hun, it kinda does for me too.
I don't like how she possesses Lucrecia's memories because it's kinda a kick up the arse for Vincent - for all the guilt and atonement he put himself through...there still remains a hint of the female that caused him so much heartache. For everything he went through, the woman that caused it is still there in a sense.....it's kinda of taunting in a way - Vincent trying to move on, and she's still there, watching.
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Kisara Strife
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Post by Kisara Strife on May 4, 2008 19:55:12 GMT
I never thought of it that way, but I guess you're right; it's just more or less teasing Vincent if she keeps the memories...but maybe she won't; weren't they defragmenting and that's how she only got the odd vision?
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Post by leafonthebreeze on May 4, 2008 21:35:09 GMT
I'd say it would be some comfort to Vincent knowing that something of Lucrecia survived, that she wasn't just completely gone and annihalated, and if Shelke had her memories it might be good for him, in that he can face Lucrecia and how she felt but through a ten year old body which he's hardly gonna fall in love with....
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Kisara Strife
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Post by Kisara Strife on May 4, 2008 23:31:13 GMT
I'm sounding brash...but that seems oddly perverted when taking into consideration Vincent's real age...
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Renolvr
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Post by Renolvr on May 4, 2008 23:37:17 GMT
True Leaf, I still greatly dislike Lucrecia, and more than likely; always will....but I do agree that it more or less rejects the theory of Vincent still having feelings for Lucrecia, and supports the notion that at the end of DOC he seems to move on....it would be slightly...ehhh...arkward, if he were to still pine after her and hold feelings for her when her memories reside in teenager who is living in a body that has stopped developing at the age of a nine/ten year old....
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