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Post by fearandloathing on Oct 15, 2007 22:17:11 GMT
Guilty as charged. I'll throw in my oar on the other side here, and say that sometimes it's just fun to write sex. Writing should be something you enjoy, right? I enjoy both reading and writing PWP-esque fic from time to time, hell, I'm part of a community on LiveJournal that had, (Quote)The Balthier/Ashe Summer Smutfest of '07' (Unquote) Most fun we ever had with their clothes off Point is, random, lemony one-shots or fic in general are a craving. And thanks to this immense Narito fic I read recently, I'm in total *glomps-the-lemon* mode
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Post by snarky on Oct 15, 2007 23:41:37 GMT
Sometimes, though, The sex is the plot, and the story is written only to describe a sex-scene. Those stories feels a bit unnecessary. Its like porn in fanfiction-style. When the sex /is/ the plot, that's different. I'm talking about stories where the sex is just thrown in there. A lot of authors make the mistake of thinking that romance requires sex, while actually neither one strictly requires the other to exist. Also, a lot of authors mistake sex for romance, and... bah, I think stuff like that is what has turned me of to most all instances of sex-in-literature-or-fanfiction.
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Post by Sylla on Oct 16, 2007 16:35:30 GMT
I haven't read or found any lemons written by any male, normally they are done by females. I think that most fan fiction writers are female, so it is completely and totally accidental. www.fanfiction.net/s/3258280/1/Soldier_of_Spira_RepostThis one walks the citrus line, and it's written by a guy. And it's really really good, go figure. Yes I am shamelessly plugging. So sue me.
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Post by leafonthebreeze on Oct 16, 2007 16:38:23 GMT
I agree with Fear, sex is fun to write and read, and I think it adds to a story if it has a well written, realistic (ie not all picture perfect) lemon in it, even if it isn't neccesary to the plot. I mean, you can't really compare sex to "going to the toilet"
Also, I find a romance between two adult characters kind of unbelievable without sex, and if they're going to do it, you may as well describe it, seeing as it's a fairly big thing in any relationship, therefore it deserves as much detail as anything else.
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Post by ladyvaltaya on Oct 16, 2007 17:07:49 GMT
Yeah. I agree with that, well said, Fear and Leaf. I salute you both! ^_^
Then again, I'm just too pervy to leave sex out of anything I'm writing for very long...
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Post by piedflycatcher on Oct 16, 2007 21:24:45 GMT
I agree with Fear, sex is fun to write and read, and I think it adds to a story... even if it isn't neccesary to the plot. I disagree. In my opinion, a good story shouldn't include any unnecessary scenes. A scene should further the plot, develop the characters or develop themes/symbolism. Ideally, it should do all three at once. If a sex scene does none of those things, if it is only there for its own sake, then it is not necessary to the plot and it shouldn't be there. That's not to say that I disapprove of any sex scenes in a story. After all, they can enrich a plot. If they don't, they're gratuitous and the only place for gratuitous sex is smut, imo.
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Post by leafonthebreeze on Oct 16, 2007 21:27:37 GMT
I guess I just spend so much time going into all that stuff at school, when I get home I like reading something that doesn't have any hidden meanings or whatever...
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Post by snarky on Oct 17, 2007 1:29:22 GMT
I mean, you can't really compare sex to "going to the toilet" I just did. I could also compare it to eating. Obviously characters need to eat in order to survive, and if it's a relevant detail to mention that a character eats or it's part of the scene, then by all means, talk about the character eating. However, to go into excessive detail about the character picking up the fork, shifting it in her fingers, glancing down at her rich, smooth, chocolatey cake, smiling faintly as she lowers the fork, pressing the tines into the thick, moist center, scooping out a bite, which she then brings to her mouth, opening it wide... And I could really go on for quite a while, describing her eating this cake. In fact, the time it would take you to read that would probably be much greater than the time it would take you to eat the cake. Furthermore, in most cases, such lengthy description about a relatively simple, straighforward act seems, to me, to be pointless and irrelevant to the story. Most sex scenes are exactly like that. Pointless and irrelevant to the story. I admit to having read pure smut before, as well as random lemons thrown into stories - and plenty of what I read went into unnecessary, mindless detail. I do not like that at all. In /any/ relationship (I'll assume you meant romantic relationships; I should hope that sex has little to do with pure friendships)? What kind of relationships do you see? Maybe superficial ones are all about the sex, or in more carnal-than-spiritual ones, but not all relationships are going to be about sex. In fact, believe it or not, not all relationships are going to have sex as a major component. To you it might seem unbelievable, but to me the fact that there are people out there who actually like anchovies, much less anchovies on pizza seems unbelievable. (Those things smell terrible and taste worse!) However, I can't really say that people don't like anchovies, because if they didn't, well... then pizza companies wouldn't offer them as a topping, because no one would buy it. Back to the point... a true, deep romance transcends mere physical attraction and becomes something more. People who are really, really close share a mental understanding and connection that has nothing to do with sex. Love is something separate from sex. That's not to say that sex and love are mutually exclusive or anything. No, more that the basis for a real, deep relationship - not a superficial one, not a summer fling, not a one night stand - is not going to be sex. However, I hate seeing fanfic authors treat relationships as though that's all it's about - sex. Of course, I'm not saying that all stories with sex in them are like that - don't get me wrong. I personally just don't see the need for having gratuitous sex in stories. I second what Pied said with the added comment that it's my personal taste that nearly all sex scenes are irrelevant and really don't need to be described in detail.
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Post by leafonthebreeze on Oct 17, 2007 17:53:27 GMT
I'm not saying romance is about sex, I'm saying it's an important part of a relationship. Also, eating is something you do every day without really thinking about it. The character wouldn't be paying that much attention to what they were doing, and therefore the reader doesn't need to know much about it. However, sex is not something you do without thinking, therefore it is not like eating. Nor is it a simple, straightforward act. It involves a hell of a lot of emotions and can quite easily go wrong. (I did point out that I hate lemons when they're perfect.) They go into mindless detail because, unlike when eating or going to the toilet, the character will be noticing, experiencing the tiny details.
And sex is a big thing in any relationship, probably more in a friendship as it would probably be a mistake, or something they regret, which still makes it a big thing.
I agree that sex shouldn't happen unless it's in a real, loving relationship that is beyond physical attraction, but the fact is a lot of the time that's how things happen.
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Post by snarky on Oct 17, 2007 18:55:30 GMT
I misunderstood what you meant - my apologies!
Nonetheless, I still argue that not all relationships have sex as a major part. Take my parents, for example - they fell in love with each other and got married before having sex. It wasn't an issue with their romance itself. Writing a story about their romance wouldn't involve sex.
Also, I was saying that in most friendships, there isn't going to be sex involved, unless it's a friends-with-benefits dealio. Thus, in most friendships, sex wouldn't be a big thing at all, as it would be non-existent.
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Post by leafonthebreeze on Oct 17, 2007 19:45:15 GMT
Yeah, I know, I meant if it did happen in a friendship, it would be a big event that would probably seriously affect the relationship rather then a big theme in the relationship.
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Post by snarky on Oct 17, 2007 20:05:09 GMT
Oh. Lol. There I go again with misunderstandings. x.x; Sorry!
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Post by leafonthebreeze on Oct 17, 2007 20:12:39 GMT
Heh dw, I should probably make myself clearer...
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Post by theskycalamity on Oct 17, 2007 22:51:36 GMT
So, when your writing out the sex scenes, they should always be important to the plot, unless it is PwP. Now, the true question is, what do you want when there is 'sex' in a story? How do you prefer it to be written? Maybe you could give a few pointers to writing sex scenes, because quite a few of us are kinda lost. Honestly, I love detail just as much as the next person. But I have come to realize that writing less is truly more. At least for me, I find it much more of a 'turn on' if certain things are left to my mind =3.
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Post by T. Costa on Oct 19, 2007 12:02:08 GMT
Writing an orgasm in is almost impossible to get perfect, and genuinely impossible for both parties unless you whip out a notebook and quiz your spouse. I have actually done this. My husband was very uncomfortable with it, especially when he found out it was for a fanfic I was writing. But I got some good intel. I write a lot of lemon. I'm not sure if I do it entirely well; I go by my past experiences, coupled with what I have talked to people about. You have to have an open mind and friends and family with an open mind for that sort of thing, however. When people ask me about writing lemons, I generally tell them that it has to be about both/all partners, unless it's from one person's POV. If you're writing in the third party, you can't simply focus on one person or another or it sounds...empty. You need to have something to put in on the other end, as it does take two to tango (unless you're writing about masturbation). Generally, however, when people are asking me, if I know them, I either tell them to go with their gut or don't do it at all. If you are not comfortable with sex, you will probably not be comfortable writing about it. And everyone is right who says that those who haven't had sex shouldn't write lemons. I've actually gone back and re-written fics from my early teen years because of that one glaring error. It's not wrong to beautify sex, because in the proper context sex can be a beautiful thing, but there's a limit, and that limit is the virginal 14-year-old's concept of sex (then again, there are some pre-sex people who have done a good job; they're usually the ones who...erm...have figured out their bodies already, so to speak). ~Tasha
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