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Post by ladyvaltaya on Nov 2, 2007 22:07:48 GMT
Hahaha... That would be creepy- but that isn't what happened.
**Crisis Core Spoilers**
Cloud was still wearing his MP uniform when Zack got him out of the Mako tank. Hoping that being away from as much of the mako as possible might help Cloud snap out of it faster, Zack changed Cloud's Mako soaked clothes, putting him into a SOLDIER First Class uniform that he found in a closet upstairs in the mansion.
Zack and Cloud actually set out to leave Nibelheim twice, during CC. Luckily, Zack notices before they have actually made it out of town, how weak the last four years of captivity have left him. Zack doesn't want to, but he goes back into the mansion and puts Cloud into a bed to rest. That is when Zack looks around and finds the spare uniform and then, after the sun goes down, they set off again.
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Post by leafonthebreeze on Nov 2, 2007 23:42:54 GMT
Ah ok... But I swear Cloud is wearing a grunt uniform in the death scene... isn't he?
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Post by piedflycatcher on Nov 3, 2007 12:39:20 GMT
I watched it again, and no he isn't. Lady V is right. Thanks for the info. I know Zack was being kind, but do you think putting Cloud in the SOLDIER uniform helped to encourage his delusions? Poor guy. The Ultimania actually says that Jenova was controlling his consciousness for much of the beginning of the game. That makes me wonder how much of Cloud, if anything, was still there. When he was upset over Aerith's death, surely that couldn't have been a lie?
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Post by Sai on Nov 3, 2007 19:14:41 GMT
I really like to think that Cloud started coming through around Nibelheim, thoguh Jenova still controlled him to an extent.
I refuse to believe that he wasn't at least somewhat in control of his mind when she dies.
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Post by ladyvaltaya on Nov 4, 2007 13:52:52 GMT
Thanks for the info. I know Zack was being kind, but do you think putting Cloud in the SOLDIER uniform helped to encourage his delusions? Poor guy. You're welcome guys. Yes, I'm afraid that waking up in the First Class uniform even though he didn't make it probably wasn't good for his weakened psyche. Zack's expression when he says "It suits you," is adorable. Zack didn't know that would happen or he would have put him in something else, I'm sure of that. As for how much of Cloud was really left... I dunno. I'm of the opinion that since Cloud remembers everything that happened in the game, that his consciousness was there, it just wasn't strong enouh to fight for control yet- or perhaps Cloud wasn't actually aware that Jenova was manipulating him at all.
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Post by allocin on Nov 29, 2007 0:01:59 GMT
Pardon if everyone else has already thought of this, but I am somewhat (read: very) dense. I realised today that:
Cloud is abducted by Hojo at the age of 16, and doesn't see the sky again until he is 21 - physically. Mentally, at least at the beginning of FFVII, he was still only 16. Kind of explains his attitude, hehe (joke!).
And Zack was mentally only 18.
Again, sorry to all those who are much brighter than me, but there's something so very tragic about these boys who suffered through so much whilst still so young. It's just beyond imagination.
~Ally~
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Post by ladyvaltaya on Nov 29, 2007 4:02:53 GMT
I get you, Ally, loud and clear.
There is something very sad about that, that's had me wrapped up in this game since the first time I saw Zack. I was obsessed with Nibelheim anyway so I was always running around the basement and originally I found that flashback quite by accident.
I think that's part of the reason I'm so drawn to them as a pair. The fact that they suffered so much and wondering what might have happened between them if Zack had survived...
I just don't think that Cloud can fairly be called "too emotional" about what happened to Zack because no one should have to go through what they did four four years. But i think it's worse that Shinra hunted them down like animals for a year before they finally cornered and killed Zack. Then lets not even mention what poor Cloud went through trying to get his life back together after watching his best friend die in his arms when he knew Zack could have escaped on his own...
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Post by piedflycatcher on Nov 29, 2007 12:17:56 GMT
Yes, his mental and emotional development was certainly impeded by all that time he spent in a test tube. It's not surprising that he suppressed all those bad memories really; he suffered so much trauma.
I think that goes some way towards explaining why Cloud was so down in AC. He never really had time to mourn for Zack because he wasn't in his right mind. He had to get over it and put his past behind him before he could move on properly.
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Post by ladyvaltaya on Dec 21, 2007 6:44:27 GMT
Random fangirl squeefor the random Cloud fanservice... Coming soon to a newstand near you... i181.photobucket.com/albums/x26/ladyvaltaya/011.jpgYes, its fashion model Cloud Strife all ready for his debut on the cover of GQ!! SOOOOOO hot... *drool* Seriously this is just the final cover of the Visual Arts book that is named after him. (It is the book that came with the lovely trailers I've been sticking all over the place...) like this one, for example... www.gametrailers.com/player/29031.htmlThis pic isn't exactly new, but thanks, MakoEyes for putting up the link to this beautiful high res image!! It's going to be my wallpaper forever!!
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Post by Sai on Dec 21, 2007 18:20:37 GMT
Ally,
I'm looknig at that right now in my own fan fiction story. The fact that they still had the mentality of teenagers-- it makes it a bit more difficult to understand Cloud, considering the fact that he has Zack's personality and is also fighting for his own... granted, it really is interesting.
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Post by t3hmaniac on Nov 20, 2008 19:29:21 GMT
sorry to bump such an old topic but there's something I wondered, FFVII was done a long time before CC and although Cloud's supposed to have Zack's phyche yet in CC he turns out much nicer.
Now is that because of a retcon of Zack's personality to make him a more likeable protagonist or was it because of something else? A possible subconcious resentment at Zack who although is the spitting image of Cloud succeded where he didn't in becoming a SOLDIER 1st class?
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Post by Tennyo (Nentikobe) on Nov 20, 2008 22:16:44 GMT
Cloud is not 100% Zack ONLY. I would say he was more influenced by many different things. Of course there's Zack, but there was also the fact that he was being manipulated by Jenova/Sephiroth, and then his own subconscious was trying to break out and warn him of the falsities of his perception (those little voices in his head, unless specified otherwise, were his subconscious). Then there was the ideal SOLDIER image that Cloud had in his mind that he strives to be, and then he finds himself torn between two beautiful women, one whom he loves in his subconscious and one that he is attracted to based on Zack's feelings.
Poor guy was really, really messed up.
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Post by Hope on Apr 10, 2009 20:19:38 GMT
Hey guys. I wanted to resurrect this thread to find out your views about something that came up in a conversation with my husband tonight. I think that there's a discontinuity in the characterisation of Cloud between the original game and Advent Children.
I'm not sure that AC does justice to the journey that Cloud made in FFVII. True, he was broody in the original game, but it was mostly when he wasn't sure who he was, and particularly when he thought that he was just a rejected clone. By the end of the game he'd faced up to the fact that he wasn't the hero that he thought he'd been and the speech that he gave to the gang on the highwind had a "well, yeah, I'm just a normal weak guy. I'm not the leader that you thought I was, but lets do this anyway'. I always thought that that was quite a show of strength.
In AC it's like he suddenly reverts to the mentally-unhinged, depressive screw-up he was when he was handing the black materia over to Sephiroth in FFVII. It makes me want to scream 'but you've got past this already!'
Anyone agree? Disagree? I was just interested to hear what you think.
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Post by La Editor on Apr 10, 2009 21:30:53 GMT
Well, yes. I do agree that I've always felt that, realistically, Cloud would not have had such an intense relapse. Personally, I've attributed it to post-traumatic stress, on a very concentrated level, but if I ever were to write a story in which the events of AC and DoC did not happen, I would tone it down - a lot. By the end of the game, to me it feels as if Cloud has overcome Aerith's death - especially when he grabs her hand. She's helping him, but I like to think that he's gotten over that, moved on. Not the case when AC is involved.
Then again, it's all really based on money. SE wanted a sequel, and, well, Cloud couldn't be a happy soul.
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Sigbru
Slum Dweller
For Pony
Posts: 18
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Post by Sigbru on Apr 11, 2009 3:09:42 GMT
Then again, it's all really based on money. SE wanted a sequel, and, well, Cloud couldn't be a happy soul. This They just gave what the fans wanted, Cloud to mop over Aeries, and Sephiroth to swing his sword. Nomura even said so, with prettier words of course Taken from FF wikia: "In The Reunion Files for Advent Children, Nomura explained that while Cloud was initially depicted as a more upbeat character at the end of VII, he chose to have Cloud be a character that fans would find more familiar, and the script was written to explain why Cloud had returned to such a frame of mind"Later they excused that as Geostigma affecting the mind, or something like that. Although he seems happier in the new scenes from AC Complete.
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