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Post by piedflycatcher on Apr 30, 2007 22:43:28 GMT
Because of that, I find all the focus on apostrophe placement and such to be, well, silly. The point of writing is to tell a story: to make both a point and evoke emotion. Personally, I get a bit annoyed with those who place restrictions on an activity that frees me. Gasp, shock, horror. ;D No, seriously, I see your point. It seems like you're focusing on the art of writing. But writing is also a craft, and words and sentences are its tools. Grammar isn't meant to be restrictive - or, at least, I don't think it should be. The conventions are there so that writers can communicate more effectively. And that helps the writer tell the story more effectively as well. I agree. It's a matter of stylistic preference. But there's that saying: in order to break the rules, you have to know them first. There's a difference between deliberately writing a sentence fragment to create a certain effect and... just writing a sentence fragment. So, yeah. Hope that shows we don't really disagree so much.
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Erissa
SOLDIER Third Class
Pretty boys are FTW.
Posts: 630
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Post by Erissa on May 1, 2007 8:51:25 GMT
It depends on the standard you set for yourself really. If you think small details aren't worth bothering about, then that's you I suppose. Just remember that your work reflects you as a person and others are free to judge. Not stoning you, just saying. For example, I am lazy and seldom write, hence my standard of writing shows that. Also you can't effectively evoke emotions and make a point if your readers are constantly distracted by grammatical errors. For example yesterday I read a story that was very well written and had a good plot, but for some reason the author decided that he doesn't need inventions such as the spelz Czech ; as a result I was distracted at least 3-4 times per chapter. Not pleasant at all.
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Post by sienna03 on May 1, 2007 11:26:41 GMT
Oh, I'm not giving a free pass to writers who do not pay attention simple sentence structure and other grammatical rules. I completely agree with Pied in that you must know the rules before you break them. I also realize that your work reflect who you are as a person, but I do not think that grammar, out of all things, should be the definitive factor. For some reason, I thought creativity was the point. (Not stoning you, I'm just saying. )
However, I've read several stories in which those rules have been broken for style and these are stories that I've loved. These are also stories where the author has been slammed for forgetting to put an apostrophe in the correct location.
And you can effectively evoke emotion if you ruin comma placement. I hate to admit it, but I do it often.
With that said, this post has been spelz Czeched.
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Post by piedflycatcher on May 1, 2007 12:16:25 GMT
I also realize that your work reflect who you are as a person, but I do not think that grammar, out of all things, should be the definitive factor. For some reason, I thought creativity was the point. (Not stoning you, I'm just saying. I don't think it is. I tend to read stories for the plot. But bad grammar distracts me. It puts off my enjoyment of what may otherwise be a good story - and that's when it does become a more important factor. Otherwise, it shouldn't be. Without that distraction, I'm free to concentrate on the plot and characters and all those far more interesting aspects of the story. Breaking the rules for style: yes. Forgetting an apostrophe: instant stoning! No, in that case, all you'd have to do is politely inform the author so they can correct the mistake. I don't see anything wrong with that.
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Post by Dramaya M. Murasaki on May 1, 2007 20:25:50 GMT
If a story I'm reading happens to have a really good plot, and has a few grammar and punctuation problems here and there, I can usually overlook it. But, if it happens to have run-on sentences, the author continually confuses words like "their" and "there" (one of my major pet peeves), and has not-so-good punctuation, I often find myself back buttoning my way out of that fic. Trying to wade through a story that has a lot of grammical errors just gives me a headache.
I do wholeheartedly agree that writing should be a learning process and maybe even a enjoyable pastime, even if said person isn't that great of a writer. However, if an author plans to post a fanfiction or even publish a story, then they should take writing more seriously.
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Post by galaxiaalpha on May 3, 2007 1:54:47 GMT
Oooh, look! An opportunity to rant!
I've definitely got quite a few pet peeves. I laughed earlier when I read the comment about "orbs" because I thought I was the only one that felt like clawing my eyes out every time I read that word. It always sounded strange to me, but I feel like I've been seeing it used more and more. A fad I guess...
I get annoyed when there are mistakes in a story summary. This is the first impression a reader gets of a fanfiction. If the summary is so badly written that I'm not sure if it's English, I'm definitely not going to click on the story.
It's very discouraging when an author of a multi-chaptered fic starts out strong, and then suddenly starts getting careless a few chapters in. I've seen this several times. A story will become popular, get massive reviews, and then suddenly all the author cares about is updating as fast as possible, at the sacrifice of editing. It also annoys me when an author sets themselves up for a grand epic, but then a little ways in it becomes clear that they never actually plotted things out past the first chapter. Epics require plots.
Wow... I guess I have quite a few pet peeves, eh? I'll pick just one more to share. Authors should not hold their stories ransom for reviews. It is a major turn-off to me when an author announces that they will not update until they receive x-number of reviews. I know it can be frustrating not to get feedback, but if you are writing just to hear someone say "good job," then your heart is not really in it.
I'll stop complaining now. Thanks for listening!
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Post by ladyvaltaya on May 3, 2007 2:05:47 GMT
In fanfiction what gets me is mostly when the writer puts in original characters says that they aren't Mary Sues.
Then, when you read the story this "super cool" person has no faults, is great at everything, is in love with the main hero of the fandom AND ends up saving the world in place of said hero. Usually while bashing the cannon love interest of said hero!
What is the point?? Just call it a self insertion and be done with it I say!!
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Post by piedflycatcher on May 3, 2007 9:29:46 GMT
Usually, if the summary says the OC is not a Mary Sue, that starts ringing alarm bells in my head. I guess human nature is contrary. You shouldn't have to say your character isn't a Mary Sue... that sounds too defensive. I actually think badly written summaries are something of a blessing, in a way. If I see a bad summary, I skip over it, because I expect the story will be bad as well. That way I miss a lot of bad fics. Of course, I might miss the occasional good fic as well... but it's really the author's responsibility to make their summary attractive to potential readers.
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Post by ladyvaltaya on May 3, 2007 14:49:35 GMT
I know. I never read oc/ main character stories at all anymore. I've been dissapointed too many times already and I don't care how many good fics I miss by skipping them.
It just seems to me that there are an unbelieveable number of children (and I use this word even though two of the worst Mary Sue writers I've ever come across were as old as I am) out there who think that they can create characters more suited to saving the world than the creators of said worlds that they are playing with.
Only a child thinks that its interesting to read a story about someone who never struggles and does everything perfectly, all of the time.
Heroes are supposed to have to work hard to be seen for the extraordinary individuals they are. Where is the achievement, if the so called epic threat turns out to be a dragon that is more suited to roasting marshmallows with its breathweapon than helpless villagers?
What is the point of the original character finally finding out about her "hidden lineage" as a son or daughter of Sephiroth if everyone he or she meets thinks that is the coolest thing ever?
Without conflict you have no story- PERIOD. Most Mary Sue fics fall short both in internal and in character vs character conflicts and confrontations.
The people who write this type of fic are usually so worried about making sure their oc is the best, coolest, smartest and most clever person ever that the conflict is unbalanced or just plain stupid as trying to fight Sephiroth with a flyswatter.
That is what I meant. It has little to do with the fact that I'm trying to read it. What bugs me is that there are writers who create that kind of **** and still others who bother reading it.
^_~
That particular pet peeve of mine has been around since I can remember. If I didn't like at least one the cannon characters in any given fandom I see no reason what so ever to write about the world/setting...
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Post by cendri on May 4, 2007 23:02:31 GMT
Dragging plots. When you take five paragraphs to say that someone moved. It's ridiculous. Length =/= quality. I'd much prefer someone tell me something meaningful in a brief span of time rather than an epic of doom.
Prolly not going to be too talkative, but when I saw "but throwing them in willy-nilly" in the first post, I had to say something. As the word 'willy-nilly' is the best thing ever. It's been around since Latin (nolens volens, if you're curious).
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sckry
Materia Dealer
Posts: 68
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Post by sckry on May 5, 2007 13:00:48 GMT
I agree with most of the comments here, and thouht I'ld throw in my own one:
Speech, or conversation, is a hard thing to capture in the written word, as humans use gesturs and expressions (in the face and in the actual voice) to communicate. What really bugs me is when you see miles of speech being spewed forth on the spot. People don't talk in massive monologues! We speak in fragments and informal speech.
Of course, I'm not implying that full spoken sentances are bad in a fic, it's only when they continue in a reel of long sentances that are wooden and appear completly flat.
It also annoys me when a character rambles on either about what happaned to them, or what they are going to do.
Uh...I think thats all for now.
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Post by doc on May 5, 2007 15:28:18 GMT
fanon.
oh, the fanon.
now not all of it's bad and i think we're all guilty of using it to some extent, but it's when people start to abuse it that it really begins to irk me.
there's a great difference between fanon and actual canon, and i wish some of the newer writers would realize this.
(oh man. i'm guilty of some of these things in my older works. *hides*)
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Post by piedflycatcher on May 5, 2007 17:51:34 GMT
What fanon don't you like?
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Post by doc on May 5, 2007 18:16:49 GMT
well, let's take vincent for an example.
such as the "doesn't let people touch him" thing. or how some authors insist that he can't use slang or contractions when he talks (he used slang in the game). also, how his demons are actual separate entities that live inside his head and talk to him. even the level of his "angst" is blown way out of proportion.
now i wouldn't say that i hate all of those by themselves; it's when they become so agonizingly overdone and people actually believe that it's all canon (then it begins to annoy me).
but i suppose he's an easy target. before dirge (never played the game, though), there wasn't much known about him.
er. but i'm basing this off of old fanfiction, because i haven't read much recently that involved this character.
man, i had a whole list of these once, but that's long gone.
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Post by piedflycatcher on May 5, 2007 18:35:14 GMT
I find Vincent difficult to write. I remember looking up his dialogue in the game, of which there isn't a great deal, and being annoyed by the inconsistency of his manner of speech. Most of the time, he seems rather curt, but then he'll come out with these overblown flowery declarations.
And yeah, I can see how this fanon might lead to a caricature Vincent in fanfiction. And it probably happens with other characters as well.
I remember being baffled when reading Reno in fanfics, because in a lot of them he says 'yo' all the time, like after nearly every sentence. But I can't remember him saying 'yo' even once in the game script.
As long as it's not overblown, fanon doesn't bother me - though I can understand it becoming tedious when you see the same thing again and again.
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