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Post by La Editor on Oct 5, 2008 23:58:30 GMT
So, I was looking around for this exact subject and couldn't find anything really going over this with the broad side of a comb. (I dug around and couldn't find anything relating to this in the FFVII section or the office, I apologize if I overlooked something similar.) FFVII is so vast that it has a lot of different ways it can be interpreted. I wanted to know different opinions, or an ultimatum on what an overarching theme would be. So, what are the underlying messages? Is there a particular one that you think really conveys the whole story? What about between the original and the compilations - different, or sharing themes?
Discuss.
:3
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Post by piedflycatcher on Oct 6, 2008 0:36:03 GMT
I read somewhere that the theme of FFVII is life. That's a very broad theme, admittedly, but I can see how it would apply to FFVII in particular. The Lifestream is the overarching embodiment of that theme.
The other thing that struck me, especially at the beginning of the game, was the very strong environmental theme. The characters are trying to save the Planet from a greedy polluting energy company, after all. And it connects to the broader theme of life too, because the whole Planet sustains, and is sustained by, life. The Gaia hypothesis is central to the world of FFVII.
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Post by YACCBS on Oct 6, 2008 1:05:19 GMT
I read somewhere that the theme of FFVII is life. That's a very broad theme, admittedly, but I can see how it would apply to FFVII in particular. The Lifestream is the overarching embodiment of that theme. My ex-English teachers would have smacked you upside the head for using a one-word theme. They always insisted that themes must be a complete sentence. Anyhoo... Hrm, I would have to give it more thought, but I want to say something to do with what defines a hero. I mean, you've got Sephy, who was a hero before he went all batty, and Cloud, who's bipolar for a large part of the game, even if he doesn't know it, and then Barret, who's saving the planet but blowing up innocent people, etc etc. Again, I'm gonna have to think on this one more.
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Post by Sai on Oct 6, 2008 2:58:36 GMT
Man, I could write an essay on FFVII. Heck, I may just do that. I mean, my teacher should give us an opportunity to do it. And I would start off with something like this:
The video game, Final Fantasy VII, pertains to the idea that destiny and reality are two separate entities. Throughout Final Fantasy VII, the main characters encounter obstacles which could not otherwise be passed without there being a divine reason--that they would be able to stand against Sephiroth in the end.
Or something like that.
You can almost always use divine intervention with video games.
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Post by T. Costa on Oct 6, 2008 5:00:45 GMT
I'm not sure about the themes involving the original FF7 - there are a lot of them; life is one, for sure, but there's also dreams, and struggle, and death, and grief, and a lot of other little things depending on where you are in the game. One theme I've noticed throughout the compilation, however, is friendship and how your friends make you stronger.
Considering how much I dislike thematic stuff, I do tend to pick up on it a lot. I noticed that one a lot in the compilation - especially in AC and DoC, but it's in CC as well (not sure about BC as I've never played it). In AC you get that scene where Cloud is being helped up by all of AVALANCHE (when I cropped that scene on my computer for AMV making I titled it "A little hand up" ^_^), and in DoC there are two separate scenes where AVALANCHE is helping Vincent or cheering him on otherwise. It seems to be a prevailing theme throughout the series, and there's even a hint of it in FF7 when everyone comes back when Cloud tells them to go find their reason to fight.
Just my two cents. ^_^
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Post by Sylla on Oct 6, 2008 6:32:13 GMT
Personal identity.
Not a huge overarching theme that encompasses all the characters, but nonetheless one important to the story itself. At the beginning of FFVII, Cloud's identity is so messed up he doesn't even know there's anything wrong; throughout the game he comes increasingly close to rediscovering who he really is; only once he's reaffirmed his true identity can they he really get going and save the world and be a hero in his own right.
As to motifs... Ioknow, I'd say some of the music might be a lietmotif, like 'Those Chosen by the Planet' whenever there's a huge serious plot point. But I'm sure there's others - just can't think of any right now. =P
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Post by piedflycatcher on Oct 6, 2008 11:11:43 GMT
My ex-English teachers would have smacked you upside the head for using a one-word theme. They always insisted that themes must be a complete sentence. Well, mine didn't. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) I agree with Tasha about friendship being important, although in AC I think the main theme that struck me was family. Cloud and Tifa's friends all come to help them, yeah, but the main story is about the two of them and Denzel and Marlene as a family. And there's a contrast with the SHM too - they're looking for their mother. There are a lot of children without parents in AC.
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Post by t3hmaniac on Oct 6, 2008 12:17:51 GMT
The environmental aspect is about as subtle as a dwarven hammer to the plums in the main game.
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Post by kajnrig on Oct 6, 2008 16:46:49 GMT
Agreed. There's just waay too much dealing with the environment in the original game to think that any other theme matches up to it; if anything, all of those - personal identity, what defines a hero, etc. - are all just sub-themes pertaining to certain characters and/or situations.
But the theme of the balance between environmental preservation and technological advancement is the one thing that ultimately ties every single thing together. The Lifestream, I'd argue, is a physical manifestation of something like the Chinese hundun, or the primordial chaos from which springs every aspect of life. The fact that everyone is fighting Shinra in order to protect the Planet, and later Sephiroth for the same purpose, is evidence that the well-being of the world is much more integral to the story than any of the main characters' personal issues.
The fact that the planet is called "the Planet" (and "Gaia," I guess...) only puts more emphasis on that theme. If it's just "the planet," then the impact of the destruction that Shinra's pollution is causing isn't as effective. Once its name is emphasized by way of the capital P, though, you already start to acknowledge that it is somehow its own character, and because its name is Planet, you get the feeling that it is the central character to the entire story, central even more so than Cloud's past or Sephiroth's birth or Shinra's profiting from corruption.
....and I could go on and on, but I'd rather not.
As far as sub-themes go, I'd have to say that the whole "corruption by power" deal is fairly strong. I mean, there's Shinra, which is profiting from sucking away (quite literally) the earth's life force.
And there's also Hojo, who physically corrupts himself through the power of Jenova (or "science," you could argue that).
And Sephiroth, as well, who gets so corrupted by the pursuit of power that his last vestige is a burning ball of fire, which looks very much hellish and demonic, and that subsequently likely symbolizes what he's become in trying to become a god.
In stark contrast, there's the epitome of all things benign and oh so lovely, Aerith. She, through what she does, becomes more of a "god" than Sephiroth does, but she almost seems like she doesn't want the power; every time something of hers happens, it's not through her, but through the Planet - she REQUESTS things of it, instead of trying to do it herself.
...and if you want to be cynical, you could totally say that "the defilement caused by outsiders" is a major sub-theme, since Jenova's more or less the one who defiles the entire Planet and causes all this stuff to happen in the first place. So that would be saying that all foreigners are bad, and that would mean that the game is teaching that everybody should close their borders and allow no one to enter into their country.
Just sayin'. After all that technical stuff, I had to throw out something nasty and reproachful.
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Post by T. Costa on Oct 6, 2008 22:37:32 GMT
I think, Kaj, that if you were going to take something away from that message involving Jenova, it wouldn't be to close your borders, but that progress for the sake of progress is not necessarily the right thing, and to temper it with knowledge - it goes hand-in-hand with the Shinra thing. AVALANCHE isn't against technology, just technology that hurts the planet. In the same vein, AVALANCHE is not against outsiders (like the Cetra), just outsiders that hurt the planet (like Jenova).
I also think that Pied is correct, about a theme of AC being family, but I personally view my friends as an extension of my family, so to me it's the same thing. The emphasis is taking care of those around you and accepting their support, because it makes you stronger, regardless of whether you are a family or a friend. And of course, throughout all of Final Fantasy there's the prevailing theme of doing what's right in the face of adversity, although Cloud has a bit of a struggle with that in AC. It's actually quite unusual; a lot of the Final Fantasy heroes just rush in - even Cloud did it in the original game - to save the day. There's no question of whether or not they'll fight. I WANT to draw a Biblical parallel, where Cloud and Jesus both lose faith in what they believe in (in this case, Cloud would be losing faith in his ability to do the right thing, or maybe in his friends and family), but then still do what is expected and right, but they're not exactly the same.
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Post by kajnrig on Oct 7, 2008 0:58:42 GMT
I think, Kaj, that if you were going to take something away from that message involving Jenova, it wouldn't be to close your borders, but that progress for the sake of progress is not necessarily the right thing, and to temper it with knowledge - it goes hand-in-hand with the Shinra thing. AVALANCHE isn't against technology, just technology that hurts the planet. In the same vein, AVALANCHE is not against outsiders (like the Cetra), just outsiders that hurt the planet (like Jenova). The thing with Jenova isn't its use as a scientific tool, if that's the impression I gave. The issue with it is that it is a foreign object that eventually becomes life-threatening, just as a cancer cell or a virus can. Within the original game, it is the one fundamental threat to the world because it is the... "backbone" of everything dangerous to the Planet - it creates the Crater, it devastates the Cetra, it gives Sephiroth the power he has, it infects Cloud and makes him go loco-psycho, and it turns Hojo into a three-armed demon... but mostly it turns Sephiroth into what he is. As for the Cetra, I was under the impression that they were always ON the Planet. Yes? No? The emphasis is taking care of those around you and accepting their support, because it makes you stronger, regardless of whether you are a family or a friend. ... There's no question of whether or not they'll fight. I WANT to draw a Biblical parallel, where Cloud and Jesus both lose faith in what they believe in (in this case, Cloud would be losing faith in his ability to do the right thing, or maybe in his friends and family), but then still do what is expected and right, but they're not exactly the same. 1. Advent Children doesn't have enough of a story to have any theme. Grr. 2. Cloud = Jesus? When does Jesus lose faith?
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Post by sixthlimb on Oct 7, 2008 2:09:17 GMT
I think the original commercial said it best. "An epic tale of war and friendship. A love that can never be. And a hatred that always was! Never coming to a theater near you... Final Fantasy VII."
Of course there's always room to build on that and undertones to pick up and...interpretations and...
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Post by T. Costa on Oct 7, 2008 6:10:12 GMT
2. Cloud = Jesus? When does Jesus lose faith? I guess it would be more along the lines of that bit where he goes "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" He loses faith in himself and God. But like I said, not a strong enough parallel, just a vague similarity.
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Post by Moira Rose on Oct 7, 2008 12:58:37 GMT
I guess it would be more along the lines of that bit where he goes "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" He loses faith in himself and God. But like I said, not a strong enough parallel, just a vague similarity. Oh, I'm not sure if the above quote embodies Jesus losing faith in God. He didn't really. He lost it in himself. But he always believed in God. I think it is quite a parallel to Cloud, but Cloud, well, he has like romantic feelings. I don't think Jesus did... My opinion. Moira
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Post by kajnrig on Oct 7, 2008 15:28:14 GMT
I always thought he was quoting something else. I forget where/how/when I heard this, but I thought he was supposed to be quoting some poet or something.
...but I could be wrong.
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