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Post by ladyvaltaya on Aug 13, 2007 2:50:20 GMT
This doesn't mean I can ever forgive him for what he did to Vincent. I guess I can normally remind myself that characters are either only graphics or moving pictures (for anime's case). I only voted for Hojo because I dislike him the most. Even though I hate to say it, I may only dislike Hojo, not hate him. It doesn't matter if they are real or not, Kysic. It is perfectly ok to hate characters who aren't real in the physical sense. Do you know why? It is the characters both good and evil get our attention and they keep it because they get our emotions involved in the stories we love. It is the characters that suck us in using our emotions and causing us to give a damn about what will happen next. Whether you love a certain character or you hate them is fine, something about them just strikes a certain cord with different people and causes them to have stronger feelings (either positive or negative) about one than another. I, for one, do hate Hojo, it doesn't matter that he isn't physically real, I hate him anyway because I hate what he stands for. Hojo represents the dark side of science and discovery. The greed and corruption that allows him to experiment on people is a terrible thing. No one should be allowed that kind of power and freedom, no one, not in the name of discovery, a company or a country.
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carzla
Recruit
never a mere memory
Posts: 121
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Post by carzla on Aug 13, 2007 9:15:00 GMT
I, for one, do hate Hojo, it doesn't matter that he isn't physically real, I hate him anyway because I hate what he stands for. Hojo represents the dark side of science and discovery. The greed and corruption that allows him to experiment on people is a terrible thing. No one should be allowed that kind of power and freedom, no one, not in the name of discovery, a company or a country. I totally agree. While discovering things is all well and good, science is supposed to help benefit humans. And whilst certain things may have to be tested on people, it should never be without consent (as in Vincent's case). Or if it causes harm after the first experiment, it should never be continued. Something Hojo failed to do, or utterly ignored. Ah... my Science and Ethics module for English is so catching up with me now...
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Post by snarky on Aug 13, 2007 21:05:02 GMT
I don't quite agree with that. If something causes harm after the first experiment, I don't think it should necessarily be discontinued forever. It's possible that a mistake was made in the proceedure or that the first expirament was an exception (say, allergic reaction, something was contaminated, it was a fluke (which does happen)). Sometimes the initial test subject may react badly to something, but then later ones might be just fine - and that's one thing you do need to figure out. Of course, it does depend on what you're testing, too, I think.
... yeah. Just... in defense of experiments that cause harm.
Also, some experiments involve causing harm and measuring reactions or infecting with a disease and then testing various medicines and symptoms. If it's done with the consent of the test subject and he or she has full awareness of what might happen... well, again, then that experiment, I'd say, is all right to perform. Sometimes for the greater good, one person may have to suffer, and if he or she does so willingly...
Heh. See, I see a grey area there that prevents me from saying 'never' in 'never be continued.'
But... I don't hate Hojo. I disagree with what he stands for, and I do not like the idea of scientists playing god, as he does with his experiments. However, I don't hate Hojo, because he's also very human (albeit a sociopathic one) - caught up in a world of ambition and lacking in a respect for human life, Hojo makes for a fascinating character.
I also think he represents an ungoverned curiosity - the idea of what happens to a person when he lets morbid curoisty have too much free reign. The urge to find out more and more about things that aren't necessarily his business knowing... Perhaps the way he inspires hate in so many is a warning about digging too deeply into things left well enough alone? Or maybe I'm being too philisophical... xD
Heh... I really can't bring myself to hate most characters or most people, really. I may not agree with 'em, and I may not like them, but for the most part, I don't hate them.
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Post by ladyvaltaya on Aug 15, 2007 13:36:51 GMT
If it's done with the consent of the test subject and he or she has full awareness of what might happen... well, again, then that experiment, I'd say, is all right to perform. Sometimes for the greater good, one person may have to suffer, and if he or she does so willingly... I also think he represents an ungoverned curiosity - the idea of what happens to a person when he lets morbid curoisty have too much free reign. Or maybe I'm being too philisophical... xD Snarky, I agree with almost all of what you have said here- except that I don't believe everyone who conscents to experimentation in this game ( or out of it for that matter) really has all the facts they need to make a sound decision about whether or not they ought to participate. I am not a very trusting person... Ethics and civil morality are not subjects that the Shinra Company takes very seriously. That sort of disrespect for the lives and welfare of not only thier paying customers but the whole planet is what is causing all the trouble in the first place and you are basically giving Hojo clearance to continue because everyone else (President Shinra) is doing it too?? Yes, there is a grey area, where conscent is concerned. That was not part of my post because Hojo doesn't care if they conscent or not. You can't seriously think that Hojo would tell his test subjects exactly what he is going to do to them even if he thought they might agree. The man is a sociopath, you said it yourself. His lack of conscience does NOT make him a good candidate for a job anywhere in the medical field. I wouldn't trust him with a pair of asprin- much less an unlimited lab filled with Jenova cells, Mako and Gaia only knows what else... ;D Part of this game's long lasting appeal is the larger than life story it tells and the scope of the story is much bigger than the world it takes place on. So, are you too philosophical about it? No, Snarky, I don't think that is possible. This game invites philosophical debate with neon signs on a scale few other games can match.
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Post by snarky on Aug 15, 2007 17:06:13 GMT
Oh, I never said I'd trust Hojo with anything. Except maybe... hm. I'd trust him if I needed someone to laugh psychotically for me. ;D Haha, a Hojo squeeze-toy!
Concerning concent, if you agree to undertake all risks - even unknown ones (and believe me, with just about everything there are unknown or unforseen risks) - then I think it's all right, provided you have an understanding of what the major risks might be. Believe you me, I /don't/ agree with ill-informed (or un-informed) concent in the slightest.
Oooh. yeah. I agree with that - the long-lasting appeal, that is. Neon signs reading Japanese, of course. x3
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Post by ladyvaltaya on Aug 17, 2007 11:21:55 GMT
Hmmmm.... A Hojo squeeze toy... I'd like that- especially if his eyes pop out and get REALLY big when you squeeze him. I'd give him to my Black Lab to eat err I mean play with. ;D Yay, we agree! I can't read Japanese, of course, but I'll still keep right on discussing things with ya, Snarky!!
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Post by leafonthebreeze on Aug 17, 2007 12:20:33 GMT
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Post by ladyvaltaya on Aug 17, 2007 12:25:13 GMT
Yay Leaf, kudos to you for finding that!! It isn't exactly what I had in mind, but Casper would LOVE to eat that. She has very big teeth to " tickle" him with!!! ;D
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Clan Dragoon
SOLDIER Third Class
"Well, since Aerith died, she unofficially got bumped up to 'main heroine' status"
Posts: 639
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Post by Clan Dragoon on Aug 30, 2007 19:58:34 GMT
For me, though...the hardest might be Aeris. I like her character, and I'd love to write her, but I think it's hard to make her human, as opposed to this pseudo-angel Ancient. Maybe it'll be like the Reno situation--one day I'll be writing a little Cetra drabble and she'll come out and smack me upside the head with that staff and basket of flowers. One can only hope. That is so true. It seems so extreme when people write Aeris, either ditzy or perfect. She's never really just a girl. I always thought of Aeris as just a normal girl, she's flirt at times in the game but also carries all those wise factors. She's just so difficult, also being a main character everyone wants you to get it right and she seems so much more important to get right. More pressure. But all time hardest character for myself? Elmyra. I love writing her and i try o work with her but it's really difficult. You want to make her motherly but she has this different side, letting Aeris run around in all this danger. She has to have some high knowing. That and Godo, I think most mistake him for a jerk but I think he just suffers from Short man syndrome. That and a serious ego and power hunger.
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Post by unwinding fantasy on Sept 9, 2007 11:03:24 GMT
Well, I'm certainly the black sheep of this flock. To put it succinctly, there's so much brilliant FFVII fiction around that I'm terrified to write anything remotely pertaining to the game. I wouldn't even prod a random NPC with my pen er, keyboard.
I connect most with conflicted characters though. Cid seems to be a fairly clear-cut guy, and considering Vincent's lack of dialog I reckon it'd be fun getting inside his head and trying to puzzle out his motives. Actions are the most telling aspect of a character -- just like RL, body language is everything -- so I love those guys/girls who rely on gestures and the like to convey their feelings and thoughts. The hardest would probably be Yuffie because I am no good at concocting zany sentences, dammit.
...I'll stick to reading.
*crawls back into the FFIX fandom*
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Post by allocin on Sept 29, 2007 19:25:58 GMT
I haven't tried writing any of the characters yet, but I can see me having problems with all of them. In reading, I find Cloud and Tifa to be the mischaracterisations I notice the most. I find Tifa too ... pining in a lot of fic, or too poetical/flowery. And Cloud ... I get that his character is the most fluid in the whole series, which makes him difficult to put concretely in fic, and everyone will have a different idea of how he should be in certain time periods.
I might have trouble writing Rufus as intelligent, manipulative, and ruthless as he should be.
~Ally~
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Post by blackmomba on Dec 14, 2008 20:15:10 GMT
I would have to say that Vincent is the hardest....I don't know why, he's just a pain in the butt- lets just leave it to that
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Post by phoneixfaerie on Dec 19, 2008 18:04:19 GMT
I'd say Aerith is hardest but for the slightly embarresing reason that I have never played the game. Since she isnt in the film, it makes it far harder, and fics seem to characterise her very differently. I also struggle with Cid or Barret - their accents are difficult.
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Post by Jeanneandheralters on Dec 20, 2008 1:06:30 GMT
I have troubles with Rufus actually. It's pretty hard sometimes... pah. Of course the easiest would be Reno
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Post by Moira Rose on Dec 20, 2008 6:51:15 GMT
I hatehatehateHATE writing Yuffie. I've recently been told that, "You'll never feel complete, unless you write a story with the focal point as your mostmostmostMOST hated pairing, and the point-of-view your hardest character to write." Therefore, Yuffentine, in Yuffie's POV. I've been outsmarted by a story!
Rufus is pretty tough, but he's quite simple when you get into his ruthless, uncaring, aloof, pain-in-the-butt self. (the one you've always wanted to be, world domination yes?)
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