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Post by Sylla on Jun 6, 2008 23:44:29 GMT
HmHm, I never seem to have that problem, either. I can spend hours on end reading fics (or on this very forum, for that matter) and not even realize it (though I do end up with the occasional headache/sore eyes).
I suppose it has to do with how much you use computers regularly, or at what age you started using them.
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Post by Youko-Kokuryuuha on Jul 11, 2008 19:31:53 GMT
I actually don't count my chapter lengths by words, but by screen size. :p
Anywhere from ten to fifteen screens is fairly equivalent to 4-5k words. I think anything shorter it just a bit to brief, and exceptionally long chapters (10K) are unhealthy, because you're staring at a computer screens for extended periods of time.
There was a fic I use to read a few years ago that was about 10-15k per update, and I found myself getting extreme headaches.
Now I wear glasses when I drive. :p
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Post by Sai on Mar 19, 2009 16:24:27 GMT
PHoooooey.
This thing is coming back from the DEAD.
Anyway, is it all right for a story to pass 300k and still not have the main characters having sex? Especially if it's a romance/adventure (though it's more adventure than romance, I'll give it that)?
-Sai
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Post by quietncryptic on Mar 19, 2009 22:13:31 GMT
Of course! Quik secks is for one-shots and minis, but let em build up to it! It'll be that much more fun when they hop to it like savages! *cackles* ooh, could this be about what I think it is? if so disregard the above and give them luuuuube!!
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Post by Youko-Kokuryuuha on Mar 19, 2009 23:29:24 GMT
*helps Sai blow dust off thread*
Yes, of course; I don't see why not. As you've already stated, it's more of an adventure fic with romance on the side, yes? That being the case, the main focus is the plot, with the romance being a slowly blossoming side factor.
Besides, romance isn't limited to rabid sex. It's perfectly reasonable to have a story labeled 'romance' and not have WILD SWEATY SEXORS thrown in immediately. The romance could be represented by budding affections, denials, kisses, dates...etc. You've got a wider scope that just sex.
I'm assuming this stems from that "Tenacity" review? Because, in all honesty, while each reviewer is entitled to his or her opinion, the author(ess) has the final say in the story's progression; you go at whatever pace you've predetermined the story to have.
And tell 'em they can suck on that. :p
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Post by VulcanElf on Mar 20, 2009 1:04:46 GMT
So... not a direct answer to the question -- and totally not meant as a flame, please believe me on this -- but why on earth does any story need to be more than 300,000 words long? I mean, your average literary fiction novel is between 70,000 and 100,000 words. 200,000+ is considered insupportably long for anything but high fantasy, and that's still pushing it. I went to a writers' conference last April, where I had the opportunity to pitch my fantasy novel (roughly 230,000 words) to a few agents, and the question they all asked was whether or not it really needed to be that long. All of the query letter workshops I went to advised me to either round my word count down to 200,000 if it absolutely had to mentioned, or leave it out entirely if I could get away with it, because no one wants to touch a book that long.
There are several factors at work here that make them wary of the word count. For one thing, if a story gets to be too long, you have to consider the very real possibility that you are telling more than one story and trying too hard to cram it all into one volume. For another, such a ponderous word count suggests perhaps an inability or unwillingness to self-edit. And you have to ask yourself how many more people might be reading your story if it was of a more manageable size. I mean, consider if you saw a volume the size of War and Peace on the shelf at a bookstore next to a book sized more like a Jane Austen novel. Not even knowing what the two books are about, most people will naturally gravitate toward the less threatening one.
Anyway, my point is just that you might want to re-examine the reasons for your story being so long.
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Post by T. Costa on Mar 20, 2009 1:13:36 GMT
Personally, I prefer stories to be that long, if longer, because then they hold my interest over a long period of time and I can take the time to savor them over a few days. But I'm not the average person - I read really fast and CONSTANTLY.
For fanfiction, not really a huge issue. People will either keep reading or they won't. For a novel, that's probably not a good thing, if only because then it won't get published, for the reasons VulcanElf mentioned.
As for sex - yes, that's fine. MOST romances take a while to get to the sex (Although I can't speak to that personally). Anyone who believes otherwise is deluded. XD
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Post by Savvy Sergeant Higakuni on Mar 20, 2009 1:20:57 GMT
ok, for those of us who aren't very good at word counting, how many regular eight-and-a-half by eleven sheets of paper is that?
I mean, i've read several peices of varing lengths, but the only comparisons i can ever make is by comparing things to novels. So for us young-ins who arent used to word counting, we need a hand understanding these things....
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Post by VulcanElf on Mar 20, 2009 1:24:46 GMT
Are you talking about your own hand-written 8.5x11 pages? Because there's really no standard for that. The only thing you can do is get yourself an average. Count up the words on at least five lines and work out the average, then figure out how many lines to a page.
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Post by Savvy Sergeant Higakuni on Mar 20, 2009 1:29:26 GMT
WHO WRITES BY HAND ANYMORE!!! lawl, just playing, but i mean like using Times New Roman on the computer 12 point font. (which is the universal standard)
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Post by VulcanElf on Mar 20, 2009 1:39:45 GMT
Dude, if you're using Word, it'll give you your actual word count. Look under "Tools."
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Post by Savvy Sergeant Higakuni on Mar 20, 2009 2:00:23 GMT
true... but i am actually on cheerie's comp which doesn't have word (eesh lame but watevs), so for referance, how many words is one page (followed by some easy multiplication and POW).
I ask this because i usually try to make my first chapter to no longer than 15 pages, the second around 8 or so and the third fairly lengthy at about 20. if the story continues then i try and provide some variation in order to not cause presbyopia at too early of an age.
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Post by Sai on Mar 20, 2009 2:30:00 GMT
Vulcan, it's a complete retelling of FFVII. It does also involve more than one story, and has so many subplots, because I think that stories should have those sub-plots. As a person who doesn't read anything under 100k, and tends to looke away from things that don't hit 150k, I figured there were more people like myself.
I don't know about you guys, but I grew up in a house where the books ranged from 400-2000 pages long. I've got S. King's The Stand read over 3 times, and I've read Robert Jordan and David Eddings my throughout my childhood. A short novel doesn't stand a chance against me. I guess that's why I write like I read.
There may as well be some things I could cut out, but I believe that it couldn't be /my/ story if it didn't have everything I envisioned in it. I've killed tons of plot points because I figured they weren't needed, so it's not like I'm clinging to crap, but what in the story is needed to tell it.
And I think it's roughly 500 pages. Give my ten minutes to compile it and I'll tell you.
EDIT: Wow, did I overshoot that number. Try 378.
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Post by Hope on Mar 20, 2009 8:45:41 GMT
As Tasha said, I think it's tough to compare fanfic and novels in terms of length. Fanfic is presented to you in manageable chapters. Yes it may be that some people would click on the chapter button, see a long list, and shy away, but if they were going to do that they'd probably do it with any chaptered fic that had progressed well into the story, it wouldn't have to be more than 300 000 words long.
Plus, the notion of editing is a little harder, because it's normally written or read in installments. Whilst individual chapters are edited, sometimes its not clear which sections could be taken out of a story unless you're looking over the whole thing. I'm sure that's what Sai would do if Tenacity was ever published in print form, but on a fanfiction site, a lot of the parts that she'd be taking out would already be on the site and would have already have been read.
In terms of the sex I agree with QnC and Koky, I think it's perfectly reasonable to build up slowly. Besides, imo sexual tension in a story is often a whole lot hotter than the sex itself, and it's not usually recaptured in the same way after the characters get it on.
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Post by Moira Rose on Mar 20, 2009 15:30:50 GMT
Hope's one to talk. Her last chapter puts my teeny ones to shame.
As a reader, I prefer to read things that build slowly, yet don't spoil it with overly floundering details I don't really need to know. It's a thin line, which makes my friends think I'm snooty and whatnots, but I've seen well-done books in all lengths. My personal favourite book still stands at this 15-page-long children's book my mum got me from Australia. Yet I still enjoy huge epics like LotR because, as Vulcan has mentioned, high-fantasy needs a lot of setting-description/build-up/etc.
On the other hand, fanfiction is very different indeed. I do not lie that I sometimes lose interest in longer fanfics, especially when they go into each minuscule detail of clothing and other trivialities. In fact, I do that much more often these days, since I've been busier and busier. At the moment, my personal favourite length is 20 chapters of about 2-3k words each. But that, as always, is a personal thing.
Sex in stories? I don't think I have much right to comment on that.
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