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FFIX
Mar 16, 2009 5:09:05 GMT
Post by Savvy Sergeant Higakuni on Mar 16, 2009 5:09:05 GMT
EXACTLY, i feel like among final fantasy games that it's up there with the really good ones! but it seems like even the hardcore fans don't give it any credit because its not like 7 or 8 with their huge love stories and big heinous villains.
I just wanted to see what the ff7 extremists think and why they belittle 9
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Clan Dragoon
SOLDIER Third Class
"Well, since Aerith died, she unofficially got bumped up to 'main heroine' status"
Posts: 639
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FFIX
Mar 16, 2009 7:09:08 GMT
Post by Clan Dragoon on Mar 16, 2009 7:09:08 GMT
Ugh - I thought I could stay silent, but I can't
XI is horrid - there I said it. And to my defense and Kaj's earlier argument, I played the original Final Fantasy's. In fact, the only one i haven't played other then XI, is VI, so I get the whole old school feel it gives off - but that's not why I dislike IX (and mind you I'm only sharing cause Sarge said he wanted opinion); I dislike hate IX because of more plot oriented points.
- And I understand, that just proves that I'm comparing IX to the standard and layout of Seven and Eight, BUT - Seven and Eight were the new movement for Final Fantasy, and aside from IX, have set the standard for the expectations (as far as plot and story) go.
First off, the main villain in IX isn't even part of the picture until the last ten minutes of the freakin game! That was slightly obnoxious, and true - Eight's technical true villain didn't appear till the very end - but it was just different.
And that's an issue before you throw in crappy twists such as Kuja (or whatever the hell his name was) and weak characters like Dagger and Vivi. I swear, if there was someone I wanted to kill - it was Vivi.
The time period of IX was exceptionally strange as well - you see futuristic touches in all the games forward from seven, and IX has them to - but it was a very different feel from the overly technology absorbed prequels in the series - which I imagine would be a major turn-off to the new fanbase of the Playstation generation.
The main plot focus was also very departed from the main character and more onto smaller characters like Vivi, Dagger and Echo - which I personally think was a poor choice because with Zidane as the main character and the player moving through him, he had real no conflict to really work through. He was just a string for the other characters to web and pull along at.
So I belittle IX because it took steps backwards in a genre and series that had taken a new and exciting turn (yes, new). VII was ground-breaking not only for the jump to the PlayStation and graphical power, but because of the different direction the series had taken. So you have this new breed of Final Fantasy games emerging, VII being the more obvious powerhouse, and then you throw out IX which traces back to the roots?
That doesn't make sense to me.
You keep rolling in what the audience wants, and clearly the audience showed favoritism and like for the style of VII and VIII - that's why I think IX is so forgotten and brushed off. To me, it just feels like a bad decision.
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Cheery
Materia Dealer
she might give him the right idea.
Posts: 64
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FFIX
Mar 16, 2009 18:30:53 GMT
Post by Cheery on Mar 16, 2009 18:30:53 GMT
personally, I thought IX was fine, but just fine. There was nothing terribly wrong with it, or bad about it, but there was nothing particularly memorable about it either. IX to me was just sort of there. to be honest, the only part I really liked about IX was Zidane. Garnet was a really poor heroine, and I agree with Clan: VIVI SHOULD DIE. ahem, anyway, IX just wasn't that special. there was very little about IX that was memorable. not the characters, not the events, not even any of the phrases. I'm not at all saying I don't like IX. I had a fun time playing it, but that was about it. it didn't draw me in the way VII and VIII did, and I didn't feel attached to any of IX's characters the way I did VII and VIII.
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mintbanana
Turk
Look at him! You cannot resist the cute!
Posts: 1,586
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FFIX
Mar 16, 2009 19:27:06 GMT
Post by mintbanana on Mar 16, 2009 19:27:06 GMT
I just started playing FFIX last week. I like it personally, and I love Vivi, and it makes me sad when people yell at him. Also, he's one of my strongest characters so far next to Zidane and Freya. Garnet irks me, and I loathe Steiner, but other than that I like the gameplay and the storyline's all right. I still prefer VII, but IX's a nice distraction. It'll get me through my Easter holiday.
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FFIX
Mar 16, 2009 19:29:21 GMT
Post by kajnrig on Mar 16, 2009 19:29:21 GMT
Ugh - I thought I could stay silent, but I can't Shoulda stayed silent. Now you SUFFER! Seven and Eight were the new movement for Final Fantasy, and aside from IX, have set the standard for the expectations (as far as plot and story) go. Because I'm sore hater, VIII didn't so much set a new standard as follow the standards set by VII. Which is why it sucked. It was a follower. First off, the main villain in IX isn't even part of the picture until the last ten minutes of the freakin game! That was slightly obnoxious, and true - Eight's technical true villain didn't appear till the very end - but it was just different. I know you said you're just replying because Savvy asked, but honestly, the main villain of IX played an even bigger part in IX than Ultimecia did in VIII. Necron was revealed all the way in Disc... 2, I wanna say, unlike in VIII, and the only reason why it seems like it's not there until the last ten minutes is because it takes a back seat to all the Kuja-fighting. I mean... VIII. Fight Edea, fight Edea, okay, she's not the main bad guy, that other lady is, fair enough, fight her, fight her, and now she's dead OH WAIT it was Ultimecia all along, figure that... And that's an issue before you throw in crappy twists such as Kuja (or whatever the hell his name was) and weak characters like Dagger and Vivi. I swear, if there was someone I wanted to kill - it was Vivi. ...c'mon... Eiko, I could understand, but Vivi? The main plot focus was also very departed from the main character and more onto smaller characters like Vivi, Dagger and Echo - which I personally think was a poor choice because with Zidane as the main character and the player moving through him, he had real no conflict to really work through. He was just a string for the other characters to web and pull along at. If there were ever two underdeveloped characters, they'd be Amarant and his bounty hunter gal friend. Seems to me that everyone else was really well thought-up, Quina included, which is strange. Vivi, I thought, was one of the best-developed of the entire entourage. ...and just to throw dirt on VIII again, THOSE characters were... god-awful. I've said this before... countless times... but the fact that the story DIDN'T branch off more often into the other characters (always "Oh Squall!" "Oh Rinoa!" "I love you Squall!" "I love you too Rinoa but I don't want to admit it 'cuz I wanna look COOL!") made them seem very, very pointless. What's the point of trying to establish a romantic interest from Quistis when it doesn't even play out throughout the rest of the story? Why even bother with the trip to Trabia Garden when Selphie doesn't even do much? Heck, why even bother having all of them oh so conveniently live together as kids when it doesn't do ANYTHING for them? Anyway. That's my jab at VIII. For now. In short: IX had better character development than anything VIII tried to throw out there. VIII was just a pale imitation of VII. So I belittle IX because it took steps backwards in a genre and series that had taken a new and exciting turn (yes, new). VII was ground-breaking not only for the jump to the PlayStation and graphical power, but because of the different direction the series had taken. So you have this new breed of Final Fantasy games emerging, VII being the more obvious powerhouse, and then you throw out IX which traces back to the roots? Well, of course. Why not? It's fitting, considering it's the very last game in the PSOne era and, in a sense, in the "old-school gaming" era entirely. To me, it seemed like a resoundingly successful merging of the S/NES designs and sensibilities and the PSOne FF gameplay and graphical power. A lot like the DS remake of FFIII, actually... You keep rolling in what the audience wants, and clearly the audience showed favoritism and like for the style of VII and VIII - that's why I think IX is so forgotten and brushed off. To me, it just feels like a bad decision. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... SUFFER!
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Cheery
Materia Dealer
she might give him the right idea.
Posts: 64
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FFIX
Mar 16, 2009 22:12:55 GMT
Post by Cheery on Mar 16, 2009 22:12:55 GMT
for the record: VIII pwns IX like the newb it is. IX's characters and plot line were nothing compared to VIII's. not to mention VIII's battle system was genius. seriously, junction system FTW. IX was definitely fun, I'll give it that, but it has nothing over it's predecessors.
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FFIX
Mar 17, 2009 4:09:39 GMT
Post by La Editor on Mar 17, 2009 4:09:39 GMT
...*looks sadly at brand new IX game that was a gift from her sister* ... *looks sadly at debut as Vivi in IX dub* ...*looks sadly at Ra-ra and Ree-ree* ...*scoots over to Uncle Kaj* K, I'm so done with asteriks for nao. I actually like IX, though I have yet to play it. I've seen the first few scenes of the walk-through/dub. Here's the way I see it, and this is only me: IX is something on it's own. Yes, it is by SE, and yes, it is intentionally a throwback to say good-bye to the premises that ultimately launched the series into its startling success. But in the end, it's still just a game - part of a series, but its own. They're all like that. They're all different, and they all have their own magic, see? I guess I would just rather dislike a game for a game than for its shortcomings in comparison to its predecessors. It doesn't have to be your favorite, but like or dislike it for itself - give it that, that's all. I'm actually pretty excited to play. I'll come back to this thread when I've played through and give an unbiased report. (And Vivi is adorable, you gotta give him that. Though, I am completely smitten with him and Eiko, mainly because of guardian1's Go Not Gently. I am smitten with any characters she writes about that make me bawl like a baby.)
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Cheery
Materia Dealer
she might give him the right idea.
Posts: 64
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FFIX
Mar 17, 2009 4:14:25 GMT
Post by Cheery on Mar 17, 2009 4:14:25 GMT
I agree with La even though VIII still pwns IX >.< I hope you have fun with it dear, because I definitely did it's really not a bad game, I just didn't think it was very special. end of story and as for your comment about Guardian1 La: Sunshine in Winter made my cry my eyes out. she's good like that.
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Clan Dragoon
SOLDIER Third Class
"Well, since Aerith died, she unofficially got bumped up to 'main heroine' status"
Posts: 639
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FFIX
Mar 17, 2009 4:34:34 GMT
Post by Clan Dragoon on Mar 17, 2009 4:34:34 GMT
Oh -I can feel it Kaj. And it feels good. Because I'm sore hater, VIII didn't so much set a new standard as follow the standards set by VII. Which is why it sucked. It was a follower. It was a follower - the entire game industry is built of followers. A hundred years from now we'll have games like: Tony Hawk 720, Super-Duper Mario 360, The Legend of Zelda: The Apocalypse of the Series and Final Fantasy 14 (Working title). So being a follower is never a bad thing for the industry, especially when you find a formula that works - such as VII demonstrated, and continues to do so. And I believe I already touched on that in retrospect to why IX came up short. Because it didn't follow, and that was it's problem. I know you said you're just replying because Savvy asked, but honestly, the main villain of IX played an even bigger part in IX than Ultimecia did in VIII. Necron was revealed all the way in Disc... 2, I wanna say, unlike in VIII, and the only reason why it seems like it's not there until the last ten minutes is because it takes a back seat to all the Kuja-fighting. I mean... VIII. Fight Edea, fight Edea, okay, she's not the main bad guy, that other lady is, fair enough, fight her, fight her, and now she's dead OH WAIT it was Ultimecia all along, figure that... It wasn't about Edea in VIII, it was about the sorceresses in general, which the whole plot pivoted around. You are SeeD, SeeD exists because there are sorceresses, SeeD is needed to kill the sorceresses. So it wasn't exactly Ultimecia has the main villain - it was her kind in general, much more vague then some old guy sitting in the background while his flamboyant right hand parades pointlessly just because (SPOILER ALERT) he happens to be Zidane's brother. Thus why I think they are clearly different - in VIII you were fighting an ideal in the irony that it was the same ideal that started you. Not just some old guy. ...c'mon... Eiko, I could understand, but Vivi? Especially Vivi....He was a gnome. With feelings. They tried to put too much into him, tried to focus too much ideal into him and work his tiny little random plot point into a much grander scale with all the kidnappings. It was way over done for such a weak and worthless character because it affected him alone - no one else. Just the midget. Which was a problem for a lot of the characters, the fact that their plot points were so separated from each other. Nothing connected, especially not with the main character - Zidane just happened to be there. You have Freya with a past and being all emo (see Cloud) Vivi with his trying to understand things way past his maturity level (see Vincent) Dagger being worthless (see Aeris) And some multi-colored Lickitung running around in Bo-peeps outfit. (See cait sith) No one was connected, and all plot points were just strung together randomly to create the mass that is FFIX. At least VII went to an unneeded effort to try and make everything connect and makes sense. ...and just to throw dirt on VIII again, THOSE characters were... god-awful. I've said this before... countless times... but the fact that the story DIDN'T branch off more often into the other characters (always "Oh Squall!" "Oh Rinoa!" "I love you Squall!" "I love you too Rinoa but I don't want to admit it 'cuz I wanna look COOL!") made them seem very, very pointless. What's the point of trying to establish a romantic interest from Quistis when it doesn't even play out throughout the rest of the story? Why even bother with the trip to Trabia Garden when Selphie doesn't even do much? Heck, why even bother having all of them oh so conveniently live together as kids when it doesn't do ANYTHING for them? Anyway. That's my jab at VIII. For now. VII is my favorite of the series, so take all the jabs you want - hell, I'll help you drown it. BUT, I did love the battle system as Cheery said above. Oh - and Zell. But I think the whole point of the character living together probably played out into some analytical ordeal that I really never had the attention span to trace out. I do Seven, that's my thing. Cheery is much better suited on VIII. In short: IX had better character development than anything VIII tried to throw out there. VIII was just a pale imitation of VII. But again, that was the whole point of why IX failed - cause it wasn't an imitation. And you have to agree, IX did no-where near as well as VII (thus why we're on a VII board and not IX). And I'm not trying to pimp VIII's character development, don't know it half as well as VII, but once again - even if IX was better in character development, it still wasn't up to par with VII (or at least I will assume because fans tend to bring that up against it paired with VII) and VII defined the series at that point. It was a horrid marketing move - before VII, IX would have been great - it really would have, because it fit the time. Well, of course. Why not? It's fitting, considering it's the very last game in the PSOne era and, in a sense, in the "old-school gaming" era entirely. To me, it seemed like a resoundingly successful merging of the S/NES designs and sensibilities and the PSOne FF gameplay and graphical power. A lot like the DS remake of FFIII, actually... I think it comes back to timing again. At the time of the series, the audience wasn't ready for it - they weren't expecting it and the marketing ploy (if that was indeed their thought in making IX) was too advanced for the time. FFIII worked because they had already started remaking the series, people are used to the idea that old games are being coined again - but that's in this day and age. IX had a good thing built and then it decided that it'd try the old formula when the new was what drew the huge crowds. It set itself up for its own failure.
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FFIX
Mar 17, 2009 5:33:35 GMT
Post by kajnrig on Mar 17, 2009 5:33:35 GMT
for the record: VIII pwns IX like the newb it is. IX's characters and plot line were nothing compared to VIII's. not to mention VIII's battle system was genius. seriously, junction system FTW. IX was definitely fun, I'll give it that, but it has nothing over it's predecessors. 1.) You deserve to suffer, too. I'd do it myself, but... eh. You're lucky. 2.) FFIX is Mufasa. FFVIII is Scar. Scar may have killed Mufasa, but he's still not even half the king. 3.) The Junction system was... IS horribly unbalanced. The Draw system IS just horrible. I took the time to buy a cheat device, which I had never done before, just so I wouldn't have to Draw for half the game. ...*looks sadly at brand new IX game that was a gift from her sister* ... *looks sadly at debut as Vivi in IX dub* ...*looks sadly at Ra-ra and Ree-ree* ...*scoots over to Uncle Kaj* Aww, ain't she just the cutest lil' thing... They're all different, and they all have their own magic, see? I guess I would just rather dislike a game for a game than for its shortcomings in comparison to its predecessors. It doesn't have to be your favorite, but like or dislike it for itself - give it that, that's all. Touche, young padawan. Oh -I can feel it Kaj. And it feels good. I can do you one better: It was a follower - the entire game industry is built of followers. A hundred years from now we'll have games like: Tony Hawk 720, Super-Duper Mario 360, The Legend of Zelda: The Apocalypse of the Series and Final Fantasy 14 (Working title). I dunno... Final Fantasy wasn't exactly a follower... SHAZAM! Actually, it was to an extent, but still... the picture was cool. And I believe I already touched on that in retrospect to why IX came up short. Because it didn't follow, and that was it's problem. How didn't it? It followed... everything. If it's fault was anything, it was that it followed everything too WELL. Again, it merged everything from every other FF. I don't see how that's not following. It just did it in an original, not-bad-fax way like VIII did, that's all. It wasn't about Edea in VIII, it was about the sorceresses in general, which the whole plot pivoted around. You are SeeD, SeeD exists because there are sorceresses, SeeD is needed to kill the sorceresses. Which brings me to another point: It's just SO convenient that EVERYTHING is connected, ain't it? I mean, come ON. Even SeeD is meant specifically to destroy Sorceresses? (Though to its credit, the whole story of Laguna and co. was very, very intriguing. Much more so than the main story.) Oh, and Imagevenue doesn't work here, for some reason. Imageshack is where it's at. He was a gnome. With feelings. They tried to put too much into him, tried to focus too much ideal into him and work his tiny little random plot point into a much grander scale with all the kidnappings. It was way over done for such a weak and worthless character because it affected him alone - no one else. Just the midget. 1.) Vivi is AWESOME. I refuse to hear any slanderous words against him. Lalalalalala... 2.) Random plot point? He was more central to the plot - him and his entire family-thingy - than most of the other characters were. 3.) Weak and worthless? That little guy was capable of wiping the floor with just about anybody. Besides, as if being a cool lil' buttkicker isn't enough, he's also undeniably cute. If I was taking care of him, I'd take him to the park each day just to get women all fawning over him. Ahem. I mean... You have Freya with a past and being all emo (see Cloud) Vivi with his trying to understand things way past his maturity level (see Vincent) Dagger being worthless (see Aeris) And some multi-colored Lickitung running around in Bo-peeps outfit. (See cait sith) I'll laugh to that, even if it's all false. Touche. And you have to agree, IX did no-where near as well as VII (thus why we're on a VII board and not IX). Oh, of course. Just saying that the reason why is because people were fooled by the "omg totally srs!" direction the series was taking. VII deserved the praise it got, VIII DIDN'T deserve the sales it got, and IX didn't deserve the hate. (Really? VIII sold the MOST of the entire series? That's just shameful...) And I'm not trying to pimp VIII's character development, don't know it half as well as VII, but once again - even if IX was better in character development, it still wasn't up to par with VII (or at least I will assume because fans tend to bring that up against it paired with VII) and VII defined the series at that point. Eh. Well, first of all, are you talking about 8? or 7? Second of all, I stubbornly stick my earlier comparison: "If you were half the king Mufasa was..." (Random note: The main reason I bring Lion King up is because my niece and nephew have demanded to watch it a total of five times in the past two days. Great movie, though, so no complaints from me. Hakuna Matata.)
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Clan Dragoon
SOLDIER Third Class
"Well, since Aerith died, she unofficially got bumped up to 'main heroine' status"
Posts: 639
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FFIX
Mar 17, 2009 6:40:01 GMT
Post by Clan Dragoon on Mar 17, 2009 6:40:01 GMT
...well played... How didn't it? It followed... everything. If it's fault was anything, it was that it followed everything too WELL. Again, it merged everything from every other FF. I don't see how that's not following. [...] new standard as follow the standards set by VII. Which is why it sucked. It was a follower. I'm getting conflicting arguments here... But for sake of clarification, I understand where you're coming in the direction of VIII, but IX was not a follower of VII - it followed the previous FF series as we've covered. Which is still its problem and I back the idea that if IX had come out before VII it would have gone over a million times better. Poor timing on the turn the series had made. Which brings me to another point: It's just SO convenient that EVERYTHING is connected, ain't it? I mean, come ON. Even SeeD is meant specifically to destroy Sorceresses? (Though to its credit, the whole story of Laguna and co. was very, very intriguing. Much more so than the main story.) I believe when everything connects that's called good writing - but I could be very wrong. Oh, and Imagevenue doesn't work here, for some reason. Imageshack is where it's at. It is. N00b. 1.) Vivi is AWESOME. I refuse to hear any slanderous words against him. Lalalalalala... 2.) Random plot point? He was more central to the plot - him and his entire family-thingy - than most of the other characters were. 3.) Weak and worthless? That little guy was capable of wiping the floor with just about anybody. Besides, as if being a cool lil' buttkicker isn't enough, he's also undeniably cute. If I was taking care of him, I'd take him to the park each day just to get women all fawning over him. Ahem. I mean... 1. He's a gnome 2. He's a gnome with feelings.3. In my game, the only thing he was wiping the floor with was his face. But if he can get the ladies I may take everything back... I'll laugh to that, even if it's all false. Touche. Good cause I take my valuable time to make that crap up for you. Yes, you're just that special. Oh, of course. Just saying that the reason why is because people were fooled by the "omg totally srs!" direction the series was taking. VII deserved the praise it got, VIII DIDN'T deserve the sales it got, and IX didn't deserve the hate. (Really? VIII sold the MOST of the entire series? That's just shameful...) Still not trying to pimp VIII - do I think it was a better game then IX...yes, undoubtedly. But I measure that because i had more fun playing VIII then IX - not because I thought the characters are cooler (even though they are ) or the plot was strung together more believably. But because it was more fun for me as a gamer. Dagger going mute was not fun. Playing Stiener and Beatrix was not fun. Doing that card tournament was not fun. Fighting a giant tree on crack as well as thong wearing black-sheep of Zidane's family: Priceless. Well, first of all, are you talking about 8? or 7? Second of all, I stubbornly stick my earlier comparison: "If you were half the king Mufasa was..." (Random note: The main reason I bring Lion King up is because my niece and nephew have demanded to watch it a total of five times in the past two days. Great movie, though, so no complaints from me. Hakuna Matata.) Technically I was clarifying that I wasn't taking about VIII or trying to pimp it. I was focusing on a contrast to why IX failed against VII - much easier argument
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FFIX
Mar 18, 2009 4:20:23 GMT
Post by kajnrig on Mar 18, 2009 4:20:23 GMT
I could respond to everything, but I think this'll suffice. You're WRONG. FFIX is still Mufasa, FFVIII is still Scar, and okay, I guess FFVII can be the combo of Timon and Pumbaa. Why? Well, they singlehandedly... doublehandedly? ...hm... doublehandedly made "Hakuna Matata" an international catchphrase, and FFVII singlehandedly... well, singlehandedly did its thing. But still. Square would be Sarabi. Sarabi - "If you were half the king Mufasa was-" Scar - "I'm ten times the king Mufasa was!" Simba - "ROAR!!! SIMBA MAD!!!" See? Not only is The Lion King a Disney Hamlet, it's also a metaphor for the hierarchy of FF greatness. I win.
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Clan Dragoon
SOLDIER Third Class
"Well, since Aerith died, she unofficially got bumped up to 'main heroine' status"
Posts: 639
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FFIX
Mar 18, 2009 5:48:38 GMT
Post by Clan Dragoon on Mar 18, 2009 5:48:38 GMT
VII = Simba. Now how does that translate in the metaphor? Exactly.
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FFIX
Mar 18, 2009 16:13:38 GMT
Post by kajnrig on Mar 18, 2009 16:13:38 GMT
Eh, I liked my metaphor more. Felt more artsy. But if that's the case, then IX would have to be Beauty and the Beast, right on up there. VIII... well, maybe VIII is Atlantis.
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Sigbru
Slum Dweller
For Pony
Posts: 18
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FFIX
Mar 18, 2009 22:04:37 GMT
Post by Sigbru on Mar 18, 2009 22:04:37 GMT
First off, the main villain in IX isn't even part of the picture until the last ten minutes of the freakin game! That was slightly obnoxious, and true - Eight's technical true villain didn't appear till the very end - but it was just different. Necron was sad really. His appearance was more or like HEY KUJA! YOU SCREWED UP! THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT I guess after the "futuristic" 'FFVII and FVIII they tried to get back the more... fantasy side of final fantasy. It was ok, I guess, but the feeling I had it was that it's a 16-bit game with better graphics Although, I didn't like it for the same reason I didn't like FFVIII. It's just ridiculously easy.
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